Richard Dawkins VS Who Created the Creator + The Big Bang + Nemelka

I have read Richard Dawkins God Delusion
and i agree with most of Dawkins theories of why god does not exist, except for the argument against Hoyles Fallacy and the Ultimate Boeing 747 gambit

"probability of life originating on Earth is no greater than the chance that a hurricane, sweeping through a scrapyard, would have the luck to assemble a Boeing 747."

Dawkins Statement

1. One of the greatest challenges to the human intellect, over the centuries, has been to explain how the complex, improbable appearance of design in the universe arises.
2. The natural temptation is to attribute the appearance of design to actual design itself. In the case of a man-made artefact such as a watch, the designer really was an intelligent engineer. It is tempting to apply the same logic to an eye or a wing, a spider or a person.
3. The temptation is a false one, because the designer hypothesis immediately raises the larger problem of who designed the designer. The whole problem we started out with was the problem of explaining statistical improbability. It is obviously no solution to postulate something even more improbable. We need a "crane" not a "skyhook," for only a crane can do the business of working up gradually and plausibly from simplicity to otherwise improbable complexity.
4. The most ingenious and powerful crane so far discovered is Darwinian evolution by natural selection. Darwin and his successors have shown how living creatures, with their spectacular statistical improbability and appearance of design, have evolved by slow, gradual degrees from simple beginnings. We can now safely say that the illusion of design in living creatures is just that – an illusion.
5. We don't yet have an equivalent crane for physics. Some kind of multiverse theory could in principle do for physics the same explanatory work as Darwinism does for biology. This kind of explanation is superficially less satisfying than the biological version of Darwinism, because it makes heavier demands on luck. But the anthropic principle entitles us to postulate far more luck than our limited human intuition is comfortable with.
6. We should not give up hope of a better crane arising in physics, something as powerful as Darwinism is for biology. But even in the absence of a strongly satisfying crane to match the biological one, the relatively weak cranes we have at present are, when abetted by the anthropic principle, self-evidently better than the self-defeating skyhook hypothesis of an intelligent designer.

Number 2 is the focus of this post.  Most if not all believers base a heavy percentage of their beliefs on this principle -- Everything is just to complex for the hole thing to be a major accident.  Atheist say technically it could be an accident and that it's fallacy to say it can't be an accident.  Richard Dawkins and other athiest point out that if it was created who created the creator?

Who Created the Creator? 
I want to point out that “Elohim אֱלהִים ” translated to its most original form, literally means “Gods,” not one, but a plural number. It is the plural version of the Hebrew word “Eloah,” which means “one God." It is a major point in judeo-christian beliefs to be "One with God"  Or Like I like to think of it "
One purpose with God"  Then Christians are pointed to Jesus Christ for an example of How to be one with God.  

Just because the question who created the creator, brings more complexity to the question of Design vs Evolution does not mean that "God" was not Created.  Christopher Marc Nemlka brings light to this by asking What came first the chicken or the egg?  He claims that there have always been chickens and there have always been eggs.

Ok Richard Dawkins here is a thought experiment for you, what happened before the "Big Bang" (assuming that you are like most humans and accept the Big Bang Theory) according to the big bang theory absolutely nothing happens before the big bang - not even time.

God's Time VS Human Time, Quantum Physics and Relativity can do some really funny things with the concept of time.  AND it is PROVEN that time works differently depending on your speed and gravitational forces.  

How come God the son, describes himself as the Alpha and the Omega,  Instead of God the Father?   Because in all the time that Humans have it is Jesus's purpose to be humanities representative to the father,  It is Jesus that understands our time maybe even better than that of the father. 
  
Christopher Marc Nemelka's book Human Reality   Explains that God the son or Jesus is a "clone" of the father, hence was created after God in chronology. But was his spirit cloned before the Big Bang? (Remember God's first day was separating the "heavens" and the earth.)  

deification [ˌdiːɪfɪˈkeɪʃən ˌdeɪ-]

n

1. (Christian Religious Writings / Theology) the act or process of exalting to the position of a god

2. (Christian Religious Writings / Theology) the state or condition of being deified

 At least the Greek Orthodox (Oldest form of Christianity) and Other groups(Mormons) believe that you can become "like" God.  Not that you will ever be Jesus Christ or God(the father), But become like God and have all that he has - thus becoming part of the Elohim, or in simply plain English,Individual Humans can become a god.

My main point is Don't throw God out with the bathwater because you think that Gods can't be created

Nemelka's Defense

I was reading this thread about Christopher Marc Nemelka and his works, It was an anti- Nemelka Thread

http://www.mormonapologetics.org/topic/36264-christopher-nemelkas-excellent-adventure/page__st__20

That anyone would even wade through his "sealed portion" is beyond me. From what I understand, he's trying to get people to read and pray about it, but any Latter-day Saint who understands the chain of command knows that God's not going to bypass his established order and use some flake to pull an end-run, especially to produce such trite drival.

So if this was Nemelka's religious beliefs, sure, I'd cut the guy some slack, but a "Joseph Smith" he's not. But he does show that if Joseph Smith were a fraud, he was far more brilliant than Nemelka could ever hope to be. The way some people have dismissed the Book of Mormon, one would think its production was no big deal. But then when one reads "The Sealed Portion," it becomes clear that writing a Book of Mormon is far more complicated. After all, Nemelka has NO WITNESSES. No one saw him with a resurrected being, no one but a friend saw him write it, and it was something he worked on for a long timeâ??and unlike Joseph Smith, he had all the time he needed to work on it. No meetings, no traveling, no organizing. Yet he couldn't produce anything even remotely close to the Book of Mormon. In fact, if Joseph Smith had produced such hackneyed material, Mormonism would be a mere footnote in the religious movements of the early 1800s.

In short, Nemelka illustrates wonderfully that Joseph Smith was ordained of God, and that the Book of Mormon was of God. Nemelka made enough mistakes in his first three pages to discredit him, and it only got worse after that.

 1. Chain of Command -If you are saying that the sealed portion must come from a general authority,  Really?  Where in the Book of Mormon Or the Doctrine and Covenents that G*d specifies that it will come through "The Corporation of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints."

In my Opinion you are EXACTLY like the Protestants and the Baptists that claim the Book of Mormon is NOT true --  When has there EVER been an Endless Succession of Prophets .  Did Joseph smith EVER say that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day saints will have exclusive rights to God's newest works from now on?

2.  No witnesses.  How do you know there are no witnesses? Can you mind read?

3. Joseph smith Vs Christopher Marc Nemelka --  Try comparing yourself to a Baptist priest from the 1830's  and just see how logical you both sound. -- To me they are Both con men Or Both true(BoM + SP)

 He still can be a con man --  But please try to give me more than opinions, Also try to read the book you are condemning --- If you care anything about truth and what actually happens.

★✩ Christopher Marc Nemelka's Response to the Leprechaun King

> Christopher

> Re: I Am The Leprechaun King!

> Admin

>

>

> You've got a small, but rather important problem, Mr. Leprechaun King: You cannot present or write things that speak to the very foundation of human intellect, our common sense.

>

> Obviously, you have taken no time to read the books associated with this work.

>

> Therefore, and this is a serious (unlike your treatise of mocking allegory) challenge to your kingship and intellect:

>

> Let us know your real name and phone number and we will contact you and arrange a friendly debate between you and me. In fact, you can bring your Leprechaun princes, Knights of the Round Table, your sages, and don't forget your talisman.

>

> But I will just bring me.

>

> Then let's allow the world to determine which one of us can explain "the things hidden from the foundation of the world" in a way that makes sense. Let's see which of us can solve the mysteries of human reality, of God, of Jesus, of religion itself. Let's see which of us can make sense of what your psychiatrist has determined is your true authority to be crowned king.

>

> You see, Mr. Carpenter-Leprechaun King, I am here. I can be contacted and seen. I will never avoid the tough questions from critics. I am a real person with real authority and real truth. You, on the other hand are no different from the many prophets of Baal up against which Elijah challenged his authority and knowledge. (It would behoove you and those like you to review the story given in 1 Kings 18.) In fact, because the incident given in the Old Testament is an allegorically presented story to teach a lesson, so I use it to teach you and those like you.

>

> In order for you to show forth any integrity or courage to back up your claims and warrant any purpose in your mocking of this important work, REVEAL TO THIS WORLD EXACTLY WHO YOU ARE, your given birth name.

>

> Then,

>

> Accept the challenge presented to you. (Or at least find someone who will.) Stack your wood high, douse it with water, and then you better stand back! Because when I do what Elijah did, with the same power and authority he had, you also will be consumed by the fire.

>

> What? Are you afraid?

>

> Until then, why are you wasting your time?

>

> I do appreciate, however, your sense of humor.

>

> P.S. Please, dear critics, refrain from calling me arrogant. There is a big difference between "Elijah," who appeared to be very arrogant, and the "prophets of Baal." When you understand that difference, you will come to understand why I write how I write and say what I say.

>

> C. :-)

++++++++++++

> Dear Brian,

>

> I think you have been around here before:

>

> http://qanda.thesealedportion.com/qna_threads//read.php?19,509,510#msg-510 (Entire content pasted below.)

>

> I imagine if anyone here wanted to follow your blog on your site, we would. You are free to believe what you want, as we are free to believe what we want. Personally, I believe in this Marvelous Work and a Wonder and that Christopher is who he says he is.

>

> Monica :0)

>

> ***********************************

MY RESPONSE

I do not have a phone since I cannot afford one. (I can make outgoing calls through skype however) However I Encourage you to call my Dad at ***-***-**** or his cell at ***-***-****

And I will talk with you as long as you can Bear my Presence.

First of all don't JUDGE ME for using Hypnosis on myself. My Blog is for me, and anybody that want's to view it.

Also I have stated that My Birth Name is Brian Carpenter My Birth Name is Brian Scott Carpenter, My Social Security Number is ***-***-****. I am a Magician, and a Hypnotist. NOT A PROPHET as Joseph Smith Claims to be. Everybody that know's me knows this.

Am I saying that I can do something another Humans Cannot?

Are you the only one that can bring forth "STORIES" to help understanding? (Even if it was for myownself)

Do you know how someone becomes a Leprechaun King? Unless you can prove to The Cop's in Isla Vista, That a Human Cop (Sorry I forgot that particular assholes true name, Although it would not be hard to find. :) Printed out a paper and signed it Declaring Me the Leprechaun King.

What else am I supposed to believe? I can't prove that I'm not the Leprechaun King. And the Top Cop in IV Has given me paperwork that say's I am.

You say I have not read the SP or 666 - QUIZ ME!!!

I have not memorized it, But I have read it and Still Believe in it %100 (even more now that I have been able to get a response from you)

I WILL SHOW YOU THE EXTENT OF MY ABILITIES ANYTIME ANY PLACE.

(although the Stork King Lives in Isla Vista so does Father Time and Mother Earth, the Wizard and Father John. )

That does not mean I am able to reveal the true Identity of Others.

Brian Scott Carpenter

Aka Talisman

Aka Leprechaun King.

Do do Legal Reason that my Lawyer has brought to my attention, I have Removed my SSN.

the government computers think you are working and could cancel your disability benefits. You could also be sued or become responsible for debts run up by others. 1-2-2010

★✩

★✩ James Randi VS Christopher Marc Nemelka

Christopher Marc Nemelka Claims that He is a Prophet of G*d, He Claims that he has the same or similar prophetic abilities as someone like Moses Joseph Smith, Peter, John the Revelator, and Other Prophets of G*D.

He however does not advocate a Religion. He does however have claims that he was able to bring forth knowledge from more than what a normal human has.

One of his claims is that he has the Umim and Thumumm a device that is more advanced than a computer.

Christopher Mark Nemelka also Claims to have his "dendrites" Open or in some way more developed than the rest of us.

Furthermore Christopher Marc Nemelka also Challenges anyone to his "work".

James Randi is a Magician that uses his "Common Sense" to find the TRUTH about Psychics and other Peoples with More+than+human abilies. In fact James Randi also has a challenge that has much more "real world" weight.

James Randi's Million dollar Challenge

So why has Christopher not already taken James Randi's offer. Don't Bullshit with me and say he doesn't know about Jame's offer.


The Answer is that Chris is allergic to Money . If he does anything for Money his powers will be sucked out of him.

this is a legitimate "kryptonite" .


But I don't think James Randi is testing the claims of the supernatural for *ONLY* the money. I'm sure that thier can be a way that *BOTH* challenges can be challenged.

I AM NOT ASKING HIM TO CUT HIS ARM OFF AND PUT IT BACK ON . Any stupid Magician can do that!

However James Randy does not Test Spiritual or Religious Beliefs

2.5 Why can’t I submit a religious or spiritual claim?

Because they are, for the most part, untestable. For example, you can look at a series of events – say surviving an automobile crash, surviving a plane crash, surviving a near-drowning and say “This was the hand of God,” but the point of the Challenge isn’t to give anecdotal evidence. It is to give something testable. Most religious people believe it’s impossible to test God. We’re pretty sure they’re right, though perhaps for different reasons

BUT Chris is not advocating a religion in any way, Maybe Spiritual Beliefs. But he has said a couple of things that "ARE" testable.

RE: James Randi
The things that should be able to be proven without interference from the "GODS";
1. does he posses advanced technology (Urum and Thummum)
Is it Possible to "Prove" though science that 1 author wrote a book 1500 years ago, and 1 man was able to "translate" 1/3 of that book (Joseph Smith). then 150 or more years latter another man was able to "translate" the other 2/3.

It should be technically possible to find out if the Original Author is the same given 2 different data sets. without the Source Material. Much the same way as

A + B = C
OR
A = B -C
OR
B = A - C

Given the Source Material is Agreed to be "theGoldenPlates" by the 2 translators. Imagine it is possible through science that an author is the author of 2 different translated works. How does this "prove with common sense" that Christopher has abilities that he would not have without interference from more Advanced Beings?
Well I guess if I was a computer I would have no concept of the social "weight" of the source material. Nor would the ideas in the "source Material" influence my proofometer.

So most likely James Randi won't come up with a "test" for Christopher Marc Nemelka, HOWEVER I CHALLENGE ANY MORMON OR ANTI MORMON in "Talismans" Test. However Logic can *Proof* something that may be considered Supernatural in of itself.

Lets play around with variables a little bit.

Lets Assume that we can prove that Joseph Smith translated A BOOK from some source material (another book) (Is it possible to prove one translated a book?)

Imagine I was writing a computer program to figure out the relationship between the Golden Plates, Joseph Smith and Chris Nemelka

Function $goldenplates

{

Book of Mormon = DATA

Sealed Portion = DATA

Authors =HumanID( Nephi, Mormon and Moroni)

}

$JosephBOM = 'Book of Mormon' FROM $goldenplates ;

$ChrisSealedPortion = 'Sealed Portion' FROM $goldenplates ;

If $JosephBOM->Authors == $ChrisSealedPortion->Authors

{

'Christopher Marc Nemelka' has same Calling as 'Joseph Smith'

}

Simply put If you can proof that the source material comes from the same author(s) you can proof that Christopher Marc Nemelka has the same Calling (which is currently undefined to the computer) as Joseph Smith.

Don't tell me that does not get Honest Seekers of the truth excited.

See http://www.uclassify.com/browse/uClassify/GenderAnalyzer_v5

See http://www.ageanalyzer.com

I am sure there is much more sophisticated programs out there that can tell you more metadata about 2 books

★✩